Technology expert Martin Avila spoke to Sara Carter during Monday’s episode of her podcast about his project to create a “second internet” amid social media platforms suspending or penalizing the accounts of many conservative voices.

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Avila is the CEO of Right Forge. It is a full-service technology infrastructure company specializing in high-availability cloud hosting, web development, managing and protecting online assets for companies, campaigns and organizations who care about an open and free internet.

Carter opened by asking Avila if he ever would have thought that the United States would reach this current point in time regarding free speech and social media.

“I didn’t,” Avila replied.

“A few years ago, you know, [I] started to get scared,” he continued. “You know, the power of big tech, when the internet of things really started taking hold—and well, my buddy told me that he has a computer in his barbecue. Those are the types of things that […] makes you go, ‘Wait. The world is the internet now.’ And these companies don’t live by the rules that the country is founded upon. […] They’re governed by profit. They’re governed by their board of directors, whoever they’re from.”

“Then you see things like the deplatforming and the censoring happening,” Avila added. “And yeah, it’s sad that we’ve reached this state, but never thought I would get here, frankly.”

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Carter, bringing up his opinion piece in Newsweek last month titled “A Second Internet is Needed for American Survival,” then asked Avila about his outlook on the future and how he can go about building a completely new infrastructure for the internet.

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“I think that people need to first and foremost remember what the internet is,” he began. “The internet is essentially two cups and a string. It’s the actual foundational network that all of these companies live on top of. So when we used to make phone calls, you know, AT&T, […] they had a lot of the fiber, […] the optics.”

“But, you know, there’s progress on Google, Facebook, all these things—Amazon, even—they have convinced us that they are the internet. And they’re driven by profit to connect us with […] Amazon Alexa […] in our kitchens, the doorbell, you know, Ring, even your thermostat, to continue to project their influence into our day-to-day lives. But at the end of the day, the internet is servers and interconnectivity between those servers,” Avila continued.

“And also what we’re doing is actually deploying the foundation of the internet and reaffirming the Bill of Rights on that platform,” he added. “And from there, we will then grow and produce applications […] that will also reaffirm the American foundation principles.”

You can follow Douglas Braff on Twitter @Douglas_P_Braff.